Gargamel: If You’re Going To Fuck Me, Don’t Fuck Yourself, Too

In which Gargamel explains his side of the hand.


After years of endless braying, D’artagnan had enough. He looked at his stats one evening and was embarrassed. He was capable of playing better and now he would. This week started out great for him and he upped his hours with the ambitions of a 10k month.

Inevitable runbad ensued, but he even wisely and correctly folded KK, an overpair on the flop, to a nit who wound up showing AA. I loaned D’artagnan a buy in since the game was good and the night was young.

We were $1000 effective. Lucky Smurf opened to 20. He’s one of those players who will open to 25 or 30 with monsters and make it 20 with everything else he wants to raise. I looked down at QQ and flatted, hoping that someone like the Banker would put in one of his frequent 3b. Plus, in a heads up spot, Lucky Smurf would likely just fold to my own 3b based on history.

It folded to D’artagnan who 3b small to 60. Lucky Smurf called. I figured D’artagnan for 99+, AQ+. I back raised to 200, which itself was too small and both called. We have a $600 pot and a flop of JT4r. Lucky smurf checked and I decided to check as well with the assumption that there was little to get value from or even protect against.

Now, D’Artagnan fired $220 or so into the $600. What did that bet mean? Well, it was terrible sizing for a bluff and a bluff here in general wasn’t a great idea. Again his range is 99+ and AQ+. Lucky smurf then check raised to 600. This has become a real problem since there aren’t many combos of draws and lucky smurf seems to always have IT. I didn’t sniff out what was going on and folded. Then, D’artagnan folded too.

WTF??? Lucky Smurf showed 98cc and D’artagnan later told me he had AK. There’s no good reason to even bet AK, especially for 220 into 600 then fold. After the session I asked D’artagnan what possessed him to take that action. He said that he was finding out where he was at. Oh really? How did that work out? There’s my giant mistake. I gave both of these players too much credit. I gave Lucky Smurf a stronger calling range in a 4b pot given stack sizes and I gave too much credit to D’artagnan.

It brings to mind the story of the scorpion and the frog. The scorpion asks the frog to carry him across a river. The frog doesn’t persuadeo.nlwant to at first because the scorpion would sting him, but the scorpion points out that doing so would cause them both to drown. So, the frog relents and the scorpion stings him, dooming them both. The frog asks why and the scorpion says it’s in his nature. On this night I was the frog. Never again.


Coming Tomorrow  Well, Very Soon, As He Did Not Need That Last Manhattan: Persuadeo Breaks Down the Hand

9 thoughts on “Gargamel: If You’re Going To Fuck Me, Don’t Fuck Yourself, Too

  1. Damn. How can you fold QQ there? If you are see a flop in a 4bet pot, with QQ, a 1:1 SPR effective, and get a flop without an A or a K, I can’t see how you arrived at folding being the correct play.

    Was it that d’Artagnon used bet sizing that signaled a lot of value (i.e. JJJ, or TTT) and then Lucky Smurph raised (i.e. JJJ or TTT)? Can you explain this a bit further though? Did you think you were facing a set with enough certainty to fold facing calling $600 to win $1400?

    Perhaps folding preflop would have been better if you were going to check fold on a JT7 flop?
    What is a good flop for QQ that doesn’t spike a set?

  2. Well Fiddy, it was a mistake as I said. It’s not merely about facing a set though. D’Artagnon has AA and KK in his range as well. When you assign both of them ranges then factor those into the board and action, what am I beating? AK and 98 obviously. It was a bad bad terrible hero fold, but I also want a better reason to stick the $800 in besides I have an overpair. I gave those two too much credit. Showing up w 98 there and betting AK for 1/3 pot for info in a cash game are donkey ass plays. Know your customer is the lesson.

  3. word to the wise:
    Never play against your own money.
    If D’Artagnon wants to play – he’s got to go to another table.

  4. I get it. But is it also not more money to collect? Are dollars on the table really like ammo? Do poker hosts and sports bettors not lend out money in order to collect more?

  5. Poker hosts don’t typically play in the game. They get $ through rake or gratudities.
    Sports bookies have an implied edge. Loaning money is a win-win for them.
    Loaning money to D’Art is a lose/lose proposition.

    If he wins – a,) he’s winning money that you could have won. thus cutting into your profit had the seat been empty..
    b.) he’s not giving you a % of his wins. All you get if he wins is his thanks and your money back.
    c.) he could beat you in a hand – which means you’re losing to your own money
    d.) he could play looser or more sloppy since it’s not his dime…. and muck up a hand you should have won.

    If he loses – now you’ve got to wait until he can pay you back!

    I’ve talked to a LOT of real poker pros. And the best don’t loan money to another player that’s in their game unless that guy is a total loser who’s good for it. You never want to prop up a player who’s got game in your game.

  6. Yeah, those are good guidelines on the whole. In this case, d’Artagnan was known to be always good for it, didn’t have an edge in a cash game at the time, but certainly affected the hand, meeting your concern D. There will be money in the seat no matter what, or in a private game, maybe not, which is why I and other hosts do make loans, so I wouldn’t worry about C too much.

  7. Alright this is getting a lot of airtime. The impact of this single loan in a single session on my winrate is minimal, especially when compared with running like ass for long stretches. Not to mention, prior to the session, D’Art texted me with every name on the table and waitlist. This was useful because going to that room is not always worth it. See, this is what friends do.

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